A 900-year-old prophecy attributed to Máel Máedóc Ua Morgair, better known to us as St. Malachy, appears to point to the line of popes ending with the successor to Pope Benedict XVI. Furthermore, there is evidence that suggests that this Petrus Romanus, or Peter the Roman, may be the False Prophet John wrote about in the Book of Revelation.
Cris Putnam and Tom Horn join us to discuss their forthcoming book, Petrus Romanus: The FINAL Pope is Here. They tell us why they began to take the prophecy of St. Malachy seriously, the evidence that lends it credence, and what it means in light of reports that Pope Benedict may not live out the year.
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This conversation was fascinating, and I look forward to any continuation and also to the book itself.
I am one of your loving but ornery Roman Catholic listeners and have written to you a time or two about something or other pertaining to generalizations made about catholics…
Here I go again –
I’d just like to stress that there are catholics who do not worship the Virgin Mary – who honor her as the chosen Mother of God the Son. This honor is not worship. We know the difference. I ask my daughter to pray for me, I ask our Mother to pray for me. I am not expecting non catholics to agree with me to do this – only to respect that reverencing a holy person, whether alive or someone who is with the Lord is not worship.
Also – there are catholics who are aware of the errors in our church.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter because we share the same faith, the same Savior, and the same passionate love for God above all else and the desire of our heart is to be with Him and we believe with all of our hearts that He has already saved us. We just cannot wait to be with Him forever and for the world to be healed.
What I want to stress above all this time is this – I believed a lot of false things growing up catholic. Some of it was taught to me and some of it was misunderstanding on my part and others.
I believe that through reading the Bible, listening to what men and women of faith have learned and shared, and through fellowship with other christians – that the Holy Spirit has gently nudged me out of heresies and errors and revealed things to me – and every day is a day I learn something new.
It is very important to reach out to catholics about what is important in a loving way – so that they have the opportunity to discern for themselves what the difference is between what our Lord has taught and revealed and things that often seem more like burdens imposed by some in the church.
I am not a protestant but I am definitely a “protestant catholic” – if that makes sense. I don’t worry about catholics who are genuine in their love and devotion to God and because of that, to their faith. But I do worry about catholics who blindly follow the church. It reminds me of the movie, “Priest”, – the vampire/sci fi/westerny one. aka: the church = god … it’s a bleak depiction of a church with no God, a church of men in costumes with no Cross, no Savior, no love. I fear for the catholics who can’t even tell the difference.
The L. Marzulli interview that was on VFTB was also excellent and I wanted to thank you for that one as well – that was quite stunning.
You are right – it does seem like “days”. I love your shows and it is comforting that someone else sees and hears what so few seem to.
Well, from your obnoxious catholic sister – I love you guys!
Oops – the Marzulli interview was a PID, I think, sorry.
By the way – here is a catholic (marian) prophecy that Chris Putnam and Tom Horn may have come across – the Garabandal, Spain prophecy (circa 1960’s) concerning a Warning, a Miracle, and a Punishment. As with any private revelation, it’s up for discernment, and there are many problems with catholic prophecy when it conflicts with the Bible (anything concerning the reign of the Catholic church, etc).
Personally, I stick with the Bible and everything else is just interesting. But there is the possibility that some private revelations were genuine and were likely corrupted and that some are demonically inspired. Again, anything that indicates any kind of rule by the Catholic church, replacement of Israel, and anything suggesting that Christ’s perfect sacrifice was somehow not the only requirement to be with God is obviously false.
I do believe that the devil knows the bible, and that he knows prophecy; so there would be some real prophecy mixed in even with the fake ones.
http://www.garabandal.org/warning.shtml (the Warning)
http://www.garabandal.org/miracle.shtml (the Miracle)
http://www.garabandal.org/punish.shtml (the Punishment)
The Catholic Church has always taught that one of the Pope’s titles is Vicar of Christ; therefore,after Jesus returns, there will no longer be a need for a Pope. Could it possibly be true that the LORD really IS nearer than we think. All who profess to be a Christian simply need to live our lives not “knowing the day or hour.” Keep the lamps full! Maranatha!
I was Catholic too. I was never taught justification by faith. That is the key difference between Catholics and evangelicals. I didn’t worship or even pray to Mary, but once confronted with the Truth — that Jesus and Jesus alone makes my salvation possible and that I can know for certain that I have eternal life in Him, (there’s no such thing as purgatory), I began to compare the teachings of the Catholic church with what the Bible teaches and I had to decide which would be the final spiritual authority in my life. By God’s grace I chose the Bible.
Everyone has to make that decision for himself: what is your final authority: The Bible or the Catholic church. It can’t be both because they are at odds about many very important issues.
If something is True, its true all the time and for everybody even if you don’t know its true or don’t believe its true. There can only be One Truth — His Name is Jesus. He is the Word incarnate. We must come to Him on HIS terms, not ours. We are not trifling with a kindly shepherd boy. In Him we are confronted with ALMIGHTY GOD – made flesh, who suffered and died for our sins and who rose again. He is the ONLY way of salvation.
You must be born again to enter the Kingdom – John 3:3 Either you believe that or you don’t but Jesus said it and He can’t lie or be mistaken.
John,
We seem to agree on most everything except your apparent condemnation of the Catholic Church as a whole – you seem to feel that my loyalty is split between God and the Catholic Church. This is exactly why I felt the need to comment in the first place.
To any catholics out there who feel attacked – please think about the brunt of John’s message – overall, he is absolutely correct. And so is Reverend Linder – Christ is all we need – not the Church, not the catechism, not the trappings. Our religion only has value insofar as it leads us to know, love, and serve God. The evangelicals are the ones for the most part who are actively listening to the living Word and joyfully heralding His return. I am not in agreement with John about the Catholic Church totally, obviously. But if I had to tell a non believer where to go to get an understanding of salvation and be shown the way – I would probably advise them to go to an evangelical church that believes in salvation through faith (works are merely an expression of our love for God – not necessary for elligibility to be with Him) and a pre-tribulation rapture, and in dispensationalism.
And to a catholic I would say – stick with what we say in the Creed, stick with the Bible, and stay away from this present church except for receiving the sacraments and going to mass. I would NEVER give that up and I believe in His Presence in the Eucharist and the graces of our true faith.
I just do not believe in denomination. I believe that we who love Christ, who believe in the Gospel, who desire to be with Him, are one body.
I was appalled to learn that I had missed the unveiling of the ‘third secret of Fatima’ which I had read and wanted to know about for many years.
…but this is somewhat off topic. Most excellent show.
I intend to relisten once I get home. It is unfortunate that we cannot afford to purchase books much these days as this would be another addition to our lenngthy ‘wishlist.’
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.210195252343174.60270.210188172343882&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=378381235524574&set=a.210195252343174.60270.210188172343882&type=3&theater
There was absolutely no, least of all “apparent,” condemnation in my post regarding the Catholic church. You are too sensitive.
May I gently say to you that you are choosing Catholic church doctrine over the Bible if you believe in transubstantiation. That was my main point in posting: the Catholic church teaches and practices many things that are rooted in paganism (you can thank Constantine for that) and that are completely at odds with Scripture. Again – each person must choose what will be the final spiritual authority in his/her life. If you choose the Catholic church, my feelings of love and acceptance do not change.
I thank God for my Catholic upbringing. We knew the fear of God. We knew Jesus is God. These things are/were priceless. Even after I was born again I obtained a BS and an MS Catholic institutions. God forgive me, grad school was a Jesuit school.
If any Catholics out there “feel attacked” I would suggest you are perceiving something that was not said and was not intended at all, and the misunderstanding is on your part.
John 3:3 You must be born again to enter the Kingdom.
Don’t leave earth until you are.
Thanks all–great show–loved it, but still have goose bumps & shivers–wish I had enough money to buy all the books recently published by some wonderful Christian authors–so, I appreciate your shows, Derek and Sharon very much, and that’s just one big reason why, so thank you!
As for prophecies surrounding the false Pope, and the apostasy of the Catholic Church, I thought I’d found the same sort of prophecy given in the appearance of the virgin Mary at La Salette back in Sept. 16, 1846–the report on it that I read first, speaks of the Church becoming the ‘seat of the anti-Christ’–plus, the name La Salette, in English, means “her smut”–Salette, itself, means “smut” in French–that name alarmed me, but the explanation was that it was the name of the town’s trash dump, or something like that–however, that report on the La Salette prophecy concerning the fate of the Catholic Church is refuted, here–
http://www.unitypublishing.com/prophecy/fake-salette.htm
So, after trying to find information on it, and finding two separate trains of thought on it–some pro, some con–I can only comment on how oddly similar the said-prophecy is to many others given by the supposed mother of the Lord over the years–
–also, my last attempt to enroll in the Catholic Church’s RCIA[classes for adults], so I could learn more about it’s teachings, and beliefs, met a bitter end–the local Deacon decided to label me a ‘trouble maker'[his words], due to some questions I’d asked about ‘sedevacantism’–the idea that the seat of Peter–the office of the Pope–was vacant, and an imposter now sits in it–I had only wanted to understand that idea better, due to finding out some things from other Catholics that really disturbed me–so, my being barred from taking the RCIA classes, and the reasons given to me for it, which I knew were false about me, it all crushed me badly, but it convinced me to simply be thankful to God that He’d led me to His Son, Jesus, so many years ago, and that I did place my faith in Jesus back then–so, I have no worries about being rejected by any denomination–no one should, so long as God has called them to place their faith in His Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ–amen–but, being lied about is NOT a pleasant experience to have to endure, believe me! Thanks, again, Derek and Sharon–love you both, too!:)
John, I believe in purgatory, I believe in the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, and I know the Lord and have discernment from the Holy Spirit. I did not go into detail why I never became a protestant and I didn’t feel the need to argue dogma or doctrine.
Since you have made such a stink and been rude about it to boot, let me tell you – I love God more than anything, and thanks to my Catholic faith, I have made it this far in a difficult life. Because when I turned from Him, the things I was taught remained so powerfully anchored in my conscience, that I would again and again return to prayer and to the persistant longing for a return to the loving arms of Jesus. I love my faith and my Church. This gift was given to us (catholic christians) by Jesus.
I am not interested in arguing, debating, or defending. I am not going to come back here to this conversation, because it has hurt me. The reason it has was the very reason I originally posted. It is wrong to speak disrespectfully and without wisdom. The way that it was approached in conversation, particularly by you, John, was very patronizing, condescending, and foolish.
To any catholics who are still reading, or to any peson who feels wounded by this callousness – this is exactly why I wanted to stick up for us – we love the Lord, and we are christians, and just because there are christians who do not agree with or share our catholic faith, don’t let that make you feel that God rejects you or that they (those who derride the catholic church) are the voice of everyone who is not catholic.
I am disappointed in this discourse, John, because even though we disagreed, you failed to show the gentle and loving character that Jesus demands of us and you are a very poor listener.
Luna: It is because of faithful Roman Catholics like you that we made it a point to emphasize–as we have in previous programs–that while we disagree with the Church on points of doctrine, we absolutely do not believe that being a Catholic equates to eternal damnation.
Luna you are looking for and expecting hate and apparently you are seeing it even when its not there. That kinda scares me.
Derek – what’s your take on justification by faith? Is that just the way protestants and evangelicals get to heaven? There is some other way for Catholics?
Sometimes there’s a fine line between diplomacy and compromise. I’d rather tell the truth politely, as I did twice, and still be demonized, than encourage error.
Derek, when you use the term “faithful Catholics” do you mean faithful to the Catholic Church or to the Scriptures?
I thank GOD for for the faithful people who confronted me with the truth.
I put it out there for Luna and you negated the effort. That’s OK. You’re the good guy. I’m the bad guy. You need an audience. I don’t.
I languish at the thought of someone holding the false and unscriptural belief that purgatory exists and somehow provides a second chance at heaven after death.
If you are comfortable seeing this as merely “a difference in doctrine” perhaps you need a fresh look at the Scriptures. Your gift is apparently not evangelism.
Jonn: I mean faithful to Christ — those who understand that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
Those people are, of course, in opposition to key elements of Roman Catholic doctrine, but we are not willing to throw everyone in every parish under the bus. We cannot know what’s in anyone’s heart, so we’ve never declared that all Roman Catholics are going to Hell — as we’ve been accused of doing.
Nor have I stated or implied that all Catholics are going to hell. Neither do I believe that.
That said, they need to be told the full Gospel.
I was not and am not hateful toward Catholics, quite the contrary, I was one and have special concern for them.
I wonder if it is possible to be faithful to Christ and still believe in purgatory. Either the Cross is sufficient or it is not. Catholicism is a works based religion and purgatory is a works based concept. We need to tell Catholics the Truth.
Jonn,
Shhhh. You need to stop while you’re ahead. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Are we seeing your “unsavory” side now?
Doesn’t feel good when the shoe is on the other foot, does it Jonn?
Derek,
Being opposed to “key elements of Roman Catholic doctrine” is not a prerequisite for going to heaven. Catholics are Christians just like us. You need to stop this. It is divisive and counter-productive.
You’re not the gatekeeper who determines who the “real” Christians are. Besides, anyone who has studied the Anglo-American globalist elites’ body of literature knows full good and well that they are not too fond of any of us… Protestant or Catholic. They’re basically WASP families who have decided they don’t believe a word of Christian teaching anymore.. whether it comes from Saint Thomas Aquinas or Martin Luther. Nothing would make the majority of those elites happier than to see Christians, both Protestant and Catholic, erased from the face of the earth. We’re all thorns in their sides and impediments to what they deem as “progress.”
And who places stock in anything Thomas Horn has to say? He exaggerates and sensationalizes just to make a quick buck. He’s in this for the money, nothing more.
You criticize the Catholics for extraneous ideas and concepts held aloft as doctrine. What about Horn’s elevation of the Nephilim/Watcher theory to doctrinal status? That’s a shameful double-standard.
Paul, I stand by everything I wrote. I am not ashamed of the Gospel….it is the power of God unto salvation. I’m certainly not shamed by you. You seem to be very immature.
I’m not responsible for Tom Horn teaches or believes. I do know the errors of Catholicism. I was raised in it. I thank GOD for the faithful people who confronted me with the Truth while I was still in darkness.
Feel free to keep raging……clanging cymbal
Jonn,
Will do. And you feel free to keep beating your cymbals about purgatory being false and how you think Catholics don’t have the “full Gospel” (whatever that means).
By the way, I don’t know who taught you how to read, but I never said you were responsible for what Tom Horn espouses. That message was not even addressed to you. That message was addressed to Derek. I used to have a column at Horn’s site and I can say firsthand that he’s a complete fraud.
I may seem immature to you, but you seem very self-righteous to me. So I guess it all evens out, right?
Paul are you saying you believe in purgatory? So Catholic Church doctrine is your final authority and not the Bible? Is that what you’re saying?
Do you care to back up your accusations about Horn? Are you most at home with George Ann Hughes? I think, doctrinally, Horn has it over her.
PS Paul
I do agree that many these days are making speculations and elevating them to the status of Biblical doctrine and yes, I agree, it is sensationalism. They lean too much on sources like the book of Enoch and they’ve formed what Tozer called: The Mutual Admiration Society. That is, they all promote each other. I don’t think any of them are exactly getting rich but its not exactly the book of Acts we’re seeing. I don’t think things will fall out the exact way ANYBODY expects and there must be a limit to all the forecasting.
There seems to be so many outlets that “expose the dark side” but they do so with very little preaching of the Word included. I think they want the approval of unbelievers. I find myself warning people about the NWO more often then just telling them the Gospel. That is a symptom of too much peering into darkness. I need a break for a while.
Also along with self-righteous you forgot to call be a bigot. If you think hard enough you can probably come up with a few more.
Like Luna, you are expecting to see hate and so you find it even when its not there.
Who taught me to read?
I learned to read in Catholic grammar school – by fine, dedicated, grossly underpaid teachers and nuns who taught us to reverence God and that abortion was murder and euthanasia was wrong, and sex was for married heterosexual couples, etc., etc,. My parents got their money’s worth. I look at those days as providing a priceless foundation. My parents put seven kids (Catholic – no birth control) through Catholic grammar school AND high school and NONE of us were abused by priests or nuns. However, we all did come to believe in justification by faith. None of us are still Catholics.
Jonn,
Well, I am glad we do agree on something, Jonn: the abundance of speculation in the absence of facts. I think that is a good start towards a middle ground.
Here’s my perspective: Catholics and Protestants are both Christians. Our differences are non-issues. They only become issues if we want to make them so. I choose not to because that is a distraction from the main concern: deviant elites that are running the world into the ground in a vain attempt to realize their idea of utopia.
Christians of different denominations are not going to see eye to eye on everything. In my own family, it is hard to sit down and get us entirely on the same page theologically speaking. I have two siblings that like to play Jars of Clay, Casting Crowns and Mercy Me songs at church. I
personally feel that church is neither the time nor the place for such music and I feel the old hymns have served us quite well thus far. But I don’t say that my siblings are not true Christians. I think the same principle applies with the question of Catholicism. There are scriptures that lead them to think there is a place that some of the deceased go for purification. We don’t feel the same way. But it is not one of the make or break non-negotiables that makes up the foundation of the Christian faith. So why make it a tie-breaker or an issue? It’s not. And people like the Gilberts who make it an issue are being petty and don’t understand or appreciate what the real crucial, important issues are.
On the issue of Horn: when Phillip and I were writing a column at his website, he kept on trying to get us to abandon scholarship and strive for making the material “more marketable.” He took down one of our articles that was sourced and cited just because a neo-confederate adherent complained about it and made an empty threat of lawsuit. The article remains up at Melanson’s site and has never once drawn any legal threats. Horn is all about the bottom line, pure and simple.
Yes, I have been on Hughe’s show before. But I agreed with her ideas and speculation concerning the Bible and theology no more than I do Horn. I simply went on her show to put our material out there. Nothing more, nothing less. I was working off the flawed contention that you go on every show you can, even when you are world’s apart from the show host. I thought, “Hey, exposure is exposure.” I no longer feel that way because I have had to go back on people, like the Gilberts, who were trying to use my work and my brother’s work to promote their own agendas. So I go on a lot less shows these days. No more Randy Maugans (admitted gnostic). No more Keith Hansen (who assumes the comic book alter ego of “Vyzygoth” and claims that the anti-catholic WASP elites are controlled by Jesuits and that America is a corporation just because it possesses a corporate status that is only invoke in special legal circumstances). And no more Gilberts (who assert that the founders were devil worshippers in spite of all their writings that promote Christianity as a contributer to the principles of civil authority).
Now I do periodically still get on the Gilberts’ message board to call them to the floor when they start promoting their strange, crude anti-statist and Christo-anarchist ideas. If you are going to have a message board, you should fully expect people to sound off. But I won’t go on their show again until they renounce these weird ideas that are opposed to civil authority and order. But I suspect they don’t have any intention of inviting on their show again anyways, so it all equals out.
Paul,
First, we agree on yet another thing: the music in church. WOW. How did things get so out of hand? The so called “worship” music that is sold today is so far from worship that I cannot listen to it. There is a difference between entertainment and worship and the church seems to be missing that. We must face that the fact that “they” have infiltrated the seminaries, the churches, the ministries and the publishing of books/music as well.
Second, I have come to the conclusion, through much trial and error, that I cannot trust every guest on shows by people I do trust. For example, it took me a long time to realize that while I trust Mike Bennett, I don’t trust every guest on his show and therefore should not listen to questionable guests. I have to use my own discernment. I think Hughes holds some very freaky beliefs but is not forthcoming about herself or what she believes. We have to pick up tidbits of her insanity here and there. She gives a platform to people who are even more confused and flakey than she is so I was surprised to see you and Tom Horn on her show. I do respect Horn though I don’t agree with everything he says. I think he should spend and equal amount of time preaching the Gospel as he does advising us of all things pagan.
I lean toward thinking Pinto is right about the founders of this country.
I really do believe that the issue of purgatory is huge. I do not find support for that in Scripture. Paul said “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” I tremble to think people have the idea there’s a place to “pay for their sins” after they die. That negates the whole concept of justification by faith. Jesus did is all. There’s no more for us to do than repent and believe then walk in relationship with Him. I can’t compromise on this. I want to tell every Catholic I know that Jesus did it all. No one can be righteous enough in this life or after this life to earn heaven. If we could, Jesus would not have had to die for us. That’s how I got saved: someone told me I can’t be good enough.
I also wanted to mention that some WASP elites are actually of Jewish descent and that they not only hate Protestants/Evangelicals and Catholics, but they are no friends of the Jews or Muslims either. They want to rid the earth of ALL “religious” peoples.
I think the Gilberts compromise and you think they are too judgmental. I suppose they can’t please all of the people all of the time.
To some extent I think the enemy is winning: the only people who appear to understand and believe the Gospel these days are providing the Body of Christ with much information about what is going on in the world but they are NOT ministering the Word to us so we end up being “a cake not turned” (Hosea 7:8). There are few places to go for solid Bible teaching these days. I can hear all I want about demons, nephilim, the NWO, aliens, etc. but nobody’s talking Jesus these days because they don’t want to offend the unbelievers in their audiences.
If I had to reduce where I stand to one statement I’d say: Jesus is Lord and the Bible is true.
I have no malice toward people who disagree with me but I can’t change my message to suit them. I do, however, crave dialogue.
(I hope I’ve spotted and fixe any typos.)
Jonn,
Your response is refreshing. And I appreciate much of what you have to say.
Another area of agreement between us: the overemphasis placed by “ministries” on the “dark side.” I think the reason for this phenomenon was identified by Rene Guenon in his important book The Reign of Quantity. It’s hard reading, but please do check it out.
Guenon asserts that materialism has flushed out almost all religious and mystical beliefs. A “great wall” of materialism forms between our reality and the more subtle reality. At a certain point, however, the wall becomes too solid and cracks begin to appear. Guenon asserts that “infra-pyschic forces” (you and I would call them the demonic) begin to come through the cracks.
He says that the invasion of these forces can be seen in what humanity fixates on in the realm of information and entertainment. We enter what Charles refers to as a “permanent Halloween.” In the realm of entertainment and information, people thrive on shows and “documentaries” filled with creatures viewed in the past by our more insightful, astute ancestors as evil.
A good example: when I was a kid, my mother loved the Waltons. It was kind of corny, I know, but it was also decent and inescapably human. My grandparents liked Little House on the Prairie. Same thing again: a little campy, but a decent show that focus on human relationships and the family bond.
Today, people would gag at those shows. They are considered boring and passe. People say, “Hey! Where are the vampires? Where are the werewolves? I want to see some UFOs! I want to see some zombies! Humans are dull!” People are fixating are fixating on things our ancestors recognized as infernal and demonic. If they could speak now, they would say, “Stay away from those things. They’re tricksters that like to deceive people and lead them into traps.” Would we listen to their sound advice? Probably not. We’re to busy allowing Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the Walking Dead, the Vampire Diaries, the Secret Circle, and True Blood mesmerize us with otherworldly creatures that cheat death and do amazing (and sometimes gory) things.
Christians have fallen into the infra-psychic forces’ trap as well. Horn and the Gilberts drone on about Nephilim, Watchers, UFOs, and demonic possession. If you’re a ministry, where is the Bible study? Where is the theological conversations about the nature of God? Where is the focus on Christ’s teachings?
Instead of talking about weird things and obsessing over them, there should be more of a focus and emphasis on soup kitchens, homeless missions, shelters for abused women, counseling for addictions and marriage and family. These have more to do with ministry than UFOs and vampires and demons.
I think Horn focuses on these things to make money. I think the Gilberts do because, well… they think they’re neat. They are drawn to the strange, the bizarre, and their weird. Derek can’t get enough of Doctor Who. By his own admission, he’s a big fan of the show. I can only suffer so much of the program myself. Eventually its emphasis on brutal, Darwinian evolution and a universe with no personal god begins to disturb me Will they reassess any kind of obsession with the dark side they might have? Probably not. They think of their fixation on such things as “ministry.”
Paul – I didn’t read your last post yet but I just thought of something that I was remiss not to say.
I believe there are Christ followers all over the world, in every denomination, country, and among every ethnicity. I think people are responsible for as much light as they have and that God is faithful to answer hungry hearts. “Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, they shall be filled.” I think there are saved people who don’t even have Bibles. God is able to reach anyone, anywhere, in any way He chooses. Its not for us to say who is saved and who is not — but I do think its good for each of us (present day America) to know what we believe and why we believe it.
I know a muslim man from the Middle East who secretly used to pray to Jesus because he did not really believe in islam. Jesus answered him. He had no Bible, didn’t go to church, knew no other Christians yet the Lord reached him. He now attends a Messianic Synagogue.
Again – God can reach anybody anywhere any way He chooses. People don’t have to look like us or talk like us, God is no respecter of persons.
I’ll read your last post ASAP.
Forgive the typos.
WOW just WOW.
A reviewer on Amazon said the book is out of print, yet Amazon has it, so would I be getting some kind of revised version or it is a dependable reprint?
You understand EXACTLY what I’ve been inadequately trying to say. I thank you for that.
I was going to come on here and ask if you’ve ever read anything by Derek Prince. He would shudder to think we are emphasizing the book of Enoch. Things he had to deal with in deliverance ministry we now celebrate. I’ve been exposed to more occult since studying the NWO and listening to current podcast ministries than I ever was in my WHOLE life. When we were Catholics and quite ignorant of the Bible we knew better than to entertain alot of what the present day “mod” movers and shakers in the Body of Christ peddle. Now I know the Bible but am falling into a trap I would have avoided even as a child.
I do think today’s movies and TV are largely orchestrated by the NWO folks who want to destroy Christianity, break down the family, and pervert the morality of the whole nation. In other words, its done on purpose. They’re mocking us with shows like V. Mostly I avoid TV altogether yet almost every PID show they talk about Netflix and what movies the audience really needs to see. I’m appalled at that. I don’t listen to get movie recommendations – movies are not my source for information (or entertainment).
Right now I’m overwhelmed with the quotes from the book you posted. I need to think.
And yes, we watched the Waltons and Little House and we didn’t feel like we needed a bath after seeing those shows.
Jonn,
I love the solid feeling of common ground under my feet. Hope you feel the same.
I’ll check into Derek Prince.
I’ve re-read your post and I agree with everything you wrote. EVERYTHING.
You have characterized the Gilberts quite accurately. I can’t comment on Horn’s money making motives but I do know on one PID show he actually started talking Gospel and I had revival right here in my kitchen. I do think he knows the Word and loves the Lord. He certainly seems more mature than most. That said, the past career he alludes to, of money making for the Assemblies of God, is problematic for me. I don’t think churches should be run like businesses and if they have enough money to invest they don’t need my ten percent. My tithe is better spent at a city mission.
This is going to be harsh: I think Watchman Nee would describe the condition of today’s “movers and shakers” as “those whose self-life remains untouched.” They don’t walk with a limp like Jacob/Israel. The self-life is still very much intact.
When one has truly “tasted that the Lord is good,” everything changes: affections, interests, motivations, perception, what one can and cannot entertain. The world no longer has the same allure. Evil is repugnant. We “peer into darkness” only as we have “release” from the Lord to do so, otherwise we protect our eye-gates and ear-gates. (Garbage in, garbage out.) We don’t give the devil a foothold.
I simply don’t see today’s “public voices” practicing good discernment. The internet is a double edged sword – yes millions can be reached but anyone can buy a microphone and start yapping. Unfortunately many of us are STARVING for fellowship with like minded people so we take what we can get.
Yes I do feel the same. I wish I could somehow give you my email address but if I post it here I can’t delete it.
“My tithe is better spent at a city mission.”
Funny. I do something very similar with my tithe. I like to know that the money is helping someone get out from the cold and elements, get something warm in their stomachs, and receive the Gospel message all in the same place.
True too what you said about the transformation following conversion. Our spiritual appetites should change when we turn to Him. One of my enduring prayers to the Lord is “Teach me to love what you love and hate what you hate.” It seems to be working, because my desires have changed considerably for better.
Right – I put it like this: let the things that grieve You grieve me and I ask Him to always show me the truth.
Warning about Derek Prince: you may find some of his materials a bit too “charismatic.” His materials about deliverance contain alot based on is experiences with people. However he was a Greek scholar and, IMO, one of the best Bible expositors of our lifetime. He really had an anointing to teach. The man heard from God.
I don’t have much respect for the guy they having running his radio show.
What’s your take on Malachi Martin?
I had alot of respect for him and I do think he was bumped.
I very much wanted to read Windswept House but I KNEW the Holy Spirit was NOT giving me the go ahead to buy it. About a year later (a few months ago) I heard someone on a Christian podcast talking about him and because that person was recommending the book I disobeyed the Lord and bought it. Funny, when it came I had to lay it face down. I was troubled by even a rather innocent looking cover. I read about 50 pages and went to sleep very troubled. The next morning I was nearly out of my mind (no exaggeration). I could not function or rest until I destroyed the book and removed it from my house.
The book may very well be an accurate account but I DIDN’T HAVE PERMISSION from the Lord to read it. My aim is to NOT make that kind of mistake again.
I worked very close with Michael Corbin before he passed away in 2008. Martin was Mike’s mentor. The two were close friends until Martin passed in 1999. Mike and I had lots of long conversations both on and off the air about Martin’s contribution to the research field. Martin provided very good, accurate information concerning the attempts to draw the Roman Catholic Church into the New World Order. He predicted the abuse scandal in the church long before it broke in the media.
Windswept is what Martin referred to “faction,” true events presented in a fictional context. Very informative and important book. But, if you feel the Lord isn’t leading you to read, I guess you shouldn’t.
It sounds like you made it the portion of the book about the Enthronement of Lucifer. Unfortunately, that event did happen. Martin met the victim, who has fortunately recovered from that horrible experience. You read that part and you wish Martin had made it up, you know?
Martin also told Mike who the Bishop of Century City was in real life.
I worked with Mike for six years and I found him to be the best radio talk show host in the field. He was also a great researcher. I trusted his judgement on things. So I think his assertion that Martin was on the right side is correct.
But again, if you say you don’t have permission, then don’t read it. I can respect that.
I don’t know much about Michael Corbin but I do know that William H. Kennedy shares your high opinion of him.
I think there’s a time for every purpose under heaven. There may come a time when the Lord does lead me to read the book if/when it suits His purpose for me. I find God is not moved by our curiosity even if comes from a pure heart.
What do you think of David Flynn’s and Michael Heiser’s work? Everyone talks about these men like they are gifts dropped down from heaven but every time I try to get into their materials I may as well be reading/hearing a foreign language. I also have a very hard time with Joseph P Farrell.
There was a time I would never have given one moment’s time to something like what Martin was saying but 911 was the beginning of a rude awakening for me.
Like Heiser, not too familiar with Flynn. Heiser and Farrell emphasize scholarship. I am all about that.
Yes you are all about that and so am I but are their conclusions biblically sound and just how much emphasis should Bible believers put on ancient pagan manuscripts? Farrell almost had me considering that God aligns planets to perform His will on earth.
At the risk of sounding ignorant, just keep in mind that Jesus didn’t start a seminary.
The wisdom of the world is foolishness to God.
He hides things from the wise and learned and reveals them to babes.
Oxford doctorate or not, I lean toward thinking there are things a new Christians knows that Farrell misses.
If something related to Bible scholarship is so difficult that the average person can’t grasp it, I fail to see its usefulness. Jesus wasn’t that complicated.
It is not beyond even the highly educated to stretch facts or interpret facts in such a way that supports their theses. It would certainly help if a whole program was devoted to asking such people exactly what they believe.
George Ann Hughes solicits donations for Farrell because “we want to keep him writing.”
I know people who work at paying jobs but don’t always have food in their houses. Is it the church’s responsibility to finance writers?
Jonn,
My perspective is as follows: extra-Biblical sources are fine so long as they confirm Biblical truths. What I have found is that there are some that do (i.e. Flavius Josephus).
Plato and Aristotle, while not Christian, are very important. So are many of the wisdom traditions. These sources confirm an important Biblical fact: all of creation emanates from an absolute truth.
Now where these sources fall short is in their failure to recognize the Lord as that absolute truth and Christ as the Logos. That must be mentioned and noted. But it should also be noted that these sources began their search for truth after the fall. The fall, in my opinion, brought a spiritual amnesia that made it humanly possible only to gain fragments of the truth. So we can’t be too judgmental. In such a climate, it is easy to see way people were so prone to paganize the truth or fragment it. It took Jesus Christ coming to earth for man to receive truth in it fullness.
So recognize the truth these sources share while acknowledging their shortcomings and you’ve done no wrong.
And if you want to finance a writer’s work, buy his/her book. That’s my opinion on that issue. I don’t believe in taking up a collection for someone like that.
I agree with everything but I’d add that I think Josephus’ work is in a class by itself, as are the Jews who kept the record straight for thousands of years though they don’t actually believe it.
I also believe that God was still in the business of answering hungry hearts even before Christ was born on earth.
I didn’t mean to imply disregard for philosophers; I’ve taken several courses. What I had in mind was material Farrell references that are of an esoteric nature. Occult really. I’m also not into the Zohar, nor do I find it edifying to learn the details of pagan “mythology” such as Horn writes about in detail.
Strange to think that the last pope is on his way. I hope that we all see Jesus coming back.
Also an interesting site is http://www.Gerda beacon.org
One thing to consider – we DO NOT know for sure that the list of popes is complete. There could be a gap after the current pope. We simply don’t know.
Paul,
I just heard Joseph P Farrell say: “I am a firm believer in karma. I really am.”
His academic record isn’t going to get him through the pearly gates. We must strain EVERYTHING he says no matter how brilliant he is because ultimately he is BLIND to the Truth.
I know I’m posting this more than 2 weeks after the last post but I came across this board talking about Joseph Farrell. I was a big fan of his research especially on the Nazi technology (I have most of his books) but then I realized that he really espouses gnosticism. I followed him on The Byte Show with GeorgeAnn Hughes until his rant against Yahweh, the two faced God.
Joseph was accused by someone to be part of the Illuminati and people just laughed it off but he does believe that the God of the bible is a “demented genocidal blood thirsty maniac” (his words), that the good guy is the one that wants to give us access to knowledge, the biblical serpent (think gnostic), that there is no “eternal debt” to be paid so this reders Jesus’ work worthless. He encouraged the listeners many times to “get your noses out of that book” (the bible), believes that what is given to Man by revelation is a lie and deception and that the Book of Rrevelation is the product of a global elite who will use it in the last days to fullfil their own prophecies.
If you are a christian, no matter which denomination be it Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, etc…dear Joseph an “ennemy of the cross of Christ” Phil 3:18. It’s too bad because I think he’s a brilliant researcher.
My 2 cents.
Jean Claude
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR POST JEAN CLAUDE.
In fact, I can’t thank you enough.
I agree, Farrell is an “enemy of the Cross” and I lean toward thinking his adoring fan George Ann knows precisely what she is doing: deceiving people.
Here is an interesting article that suggests the recent leak of confidential letters from the Vatican could bring on the downfall of the Roman Catholic Church and subsequently the end of the Papacy! http://www.empowernetwork.com/bengillott/blog/last-pope-vatican-prophecy-of-saint-malachy/?id=bengillott