old,the term post trib is not much older,but the teachings go
back to the early Church.So we can play semantics concerning
when the name of each doctrine was started,but that doesn’t
prove anything one way or the other. It really comes down to
your belief concerning your view on Israel and the Church,If
the Church has replaced Israel,then the post Trib view is
true,if the Church and Israel are two distinct groups,with
different beginnings,different purposes and different
destinies,then the pre trib rapture has to be true.
The problem is we have been brain washed,by the teachings of
Augustine and Origin,whcih became the teachings of the Roman
Catholic Church and then later the Reformers teachings. The
Reformers were great in two areas,justification by faith and
the authority of scripture,but besides those two teachings
they were no different than the RCC.They both believed in the
allegorical interpretation of scripture,replcement theology
and no physical kingdom,all of which are incorrect!!Which led
to 1500 yrs of the misinterpretation of scripture especially
concerning Israel,which they thought was gone forever.This
resulted in the believing Church believing the only thing God
cares about is the Church and we ignore obvious references to
Israel and with our eyes glazed over just recite them without
understanding the context of what is being stated.
A perfect example is Matt.24: 16,20 and 21,in 24:16 it
states,then let those who are in judea flee to the mountains.”
Is there a big mega Church in Judea I don’t know about. Also
in Rev 12 it is clear that it is speaking of the nation of
Israel which flees into the wilderness,not the Church. In
24:20 it says,” pray that your flight in may not be in
winteror on the Sabbath.” Once again is the Church now in the
their homes in Jerusalem and observing the Sabbath,of course
not! It is speaking to the remnant of Israel that is the focus
of the the 70th week of Daniel,not the Church. Dan. 9:24
states, “70 weeks have been determined for your people and for
your holy city.” The focus of the 70 weeks is Jews and
Jerusalem,just like Matt 24 teaches. 24:21 is a quote from
Dan.12:1 which states,”At that time Michael shall stand up,the
great prince who stands watch over the people the sons of your
people;And there shall be a time of trouble;such as never was
since there was a nation,even to that time. and at that time
your people shall shall be delivered,Every one who is found
written in the book.” In Matt.24:21 states,”For then there
will be great tribulation such has never been since the
beginning of the world until this time,no,nor shall ever be.”
It says the same thing and Dan.12:1 is clearly speaking of
Israel and Jesus just quoted from Dan in verse 15 so it is not
a stretch to think he would do it again.
Another example of how we don’t even think of Israel because
of the reformed influence that has corrupted our thinking is
found in Matt 23:39 Jesus states,”For I say to you,you shall
see me no more till you say blessed is he who comes in the
name of the Lord.” Who is Jesus speaking to? Jerusalem and
those who rejected Him,Jews. Hosea 5:15 says the same
thing ,”I will return again to my place till they acknowledge
their offense,then they will seek My face In their affliction
they will earnestly seek Me.” It is Israel that will determine
when the Lord returns,not the Church.
As I said earlier,if you are a replacement theology
guy,then ,I cannot argue with your view,because if the Church
is Israel and Israel goes through the Tribulation,then the
Church will as Israel,but if they are two distinct
peoples ,then the Church must be raptured so God can save for
Himself a remnant of Israel to go into the kingdom and
reeceive the promises given to physical Jews who are saved.
]]>PRETRIB RAPTURE SECRETS
How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He’s now at the Father’s “right hand,” Acts 2:34) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. (“The Rapture Question,” by long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn’t dare to even list, in its scripture index, these too-hot-to-handle verses!) Since Jesus can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends, which is also when His foes are finally put down (made His “footstool,” Acts 2:35), the rapture therefore can’t take place before the end of the trib! (The same Acts verses were also too hot for John Darby – the so-called “father of dispensationalism” – to list in the scripture index in his “Letters” which covers Acts 2 and 3 much more comprehensively than Walvoord’s!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The “rest” for “all them that believe” is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who’d be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the posttrib end of “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which is Israel’s posttrib resurrection!)
Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this “rapture” was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so some pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” [“gathering”] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!).
Here are some Google articles on the 182-year-old pretrib rapture view: “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes,” “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “X-Raying Margaret,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Walvoord Melts Ice,” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Thieves’ Marketing,” “Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” and “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” – all by the author of the extremely accurate and highly endorsed book “The Rapture Plot” (see Armageddon Books).
I accept the definitions that the Messiah has given. I reject yours completely. Thus I reject your pre-trib garbage.
Can you here that noise? That is the sound of me shaking the dust from my shoes and turning and walking away.
Good bye.
]]>The simple clear scripture says this. Period – end of story. If you don’t like it… bummer.
It is simple: YOU cannot have Jesus define His own terms because that will screw up your pre trib dogma. God forbid that you would actually let the Messiah define his own terms. Unbelievable!!
Jesus Himself says that He is the Temple and the Temple is His Fathers House and YOU DENY IT! I’d be watching out for lightening bolts if I were you.
So I ask myself: Who should I believe? Richie G or Jesus? Missler or Jesus? La Haye or Jesus. I take Jesus every time.
Again, in Richie G’s world anyhow, inference wins over clear scripture.
I trust in Jesus. You on the other hand trust in inference.
]]>Here is a quote from Oliver Cromwell:
“I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken.”
Is that possible?
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
What He says here is “When he comes” “He will receive us unto Himself”.
Is it possible that His Father’s House is the Temple?
John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise.
Kinda looks like it.
According to Paul, our body makes up the Temple, the Living Temple.
He comes and receives us “unto Himself”. The ultimate Temple of God, “My Father’s House”.
Joh_2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
There is no question that “My Father’s House” and “This Temple” is the Messiah Himself.
So the scripture says “He will come here, receive us to Himself” so “that where I am, there ye may be also.” Which in this case will be in Jerusalem. HERE ON EARTH!
]]>Where did you get this? First Missler? Second, Third, Fourth Lahaye?
Quote the scripture where he left the world and please, don’t try to interpret it for me as I am quite capable of understanding what it says for myself.
]]>Inference over clarity.
There is no end to wolves in sheep’s clothing
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